Gaming Keyboard: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
Honestly, I play a melee character. I get my face off every time I encounter a mage NPC. When I have difficulty chopping them down with my weapons, I pull out dual flames and torch them down with almost no effort. Granted manna runs out quick for me (I am 120/120 primarily due to the fact I only use manna for resto/healing.) I think if I jam packed some points into Mann instead, I wouldn't have any problem maintaining constant DPS. As it stands, I get my butt handed to me quite often as melee. I rely on fatigue, and some Mana to keep my health up. Granted I can take a beating, my dps output isn't anywhere near as great as a dual caster. So I totally disagree with saying melee doesn't have to rely on all 3 bars [stamina, mana, health]. I feel the game is greatly balanced, and even at a default difficulty the game proves challenging. So it's not a stroll in the park? Turn it on novice if you think it's too hard. This is just my opinion, no intention of trolling intended.

#2
16-11-2011
Halle
Member

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,605
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
The thing that really irks me is that certain spell effects in Destruction become absolutely useless. Personally, I loved the Flames spell. A jet of fire leaving my hands was awesome. It makes no sense why I suddenly can't use that spell effect anymore. What would have been nice was to either have spells scale or allow each individual spell to be improved upon. That way, if someone doesn't like Firebolt but likes Flames they can make Flames the stronger spell...in other words, spellcrafting.

#3
16-11-2011
Daksha90
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,483
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
My brother has a level 30 pure mage, and has most if not every single perk in Destruction. He kicks the out of everything in 1-2 hits with a single fireball I think all the mages who are saying destruction sucks are either playing on a stupendously hard difficulty mode, or just don't know their craft very well. Or maybe none of you are taking perks in the tree. Although, most examples I see of why destruction is bad are coming from mages using the worst spell they can against certain monster types.

#4
16-11-2011
Chakradevroy
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,587
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
You can upgrade a steel sword through something and that is increasing its damage output while remaining in the same weapon tier. You can't do that with Destruction. Even once you get to Daedric weaponry, you can still continue to improve its' damage and even enchant it to continue to provide more damage. You can't do anything of the sort with Destruction. A spell of 50 DMG will stay at 50dmg forever. In the end, what this means is that a warrior-type character still has options at higher levels. But a Destruction mage does not.

#5
16-11-2011
GaganGang
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,532
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
I love the Dwarves Axe quite a lot because of the look of it. It appeals as an awesome weapon just by looking at it. BUT, I am not going to use it the entire rest of the game and complain that melee sucks. Skyrim is not meant to play like WoW. Higher your one-handed skill the higher damage output? Because I thought all weapons had a constant damage rating? For spells you can use perks to definitely increase their power. Using all the schools of magic though, is a mage's best line of defense...or offense.

#6
16-11-2011
MACALL
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,241
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
It’s not possible to go into combat without a companion as a pure mage. While offensive magic can deal out hefty damage, it's simply not possible to rely on it, or rely on magic at all. If you dropped all your melee weapons and only used fire, the first enemy that you fail to kill with your first destruction burst would lodge an axe in your face, and there is no way to avoid it. I have 400 magic and lots of destruction perks, I started a dual-wielding character to compare, and it’s not even funny how easy the game is in stealth or fighter mode. Magic is a very effective sidearm, but it simply cannot be relied upon in combat as a primary weapon, you have no fallback.

#7
16-11-2011
MinkaM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 900
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
There is a difference between the material of a weapon influencing its damage and the effect of a spell. There is no law that dictates Flames MUST be weaker than Firebolt. But it is known that the dwarves axe is less durable and powerful than ebony or Daedric. A better analogy would be to compare weapons of the same material but different design, like a dwarf’s axe or dwarves sword. Neither one is extremely better than the other; it depends on your play style. There is no reason why a ball of fire has to be stronger than a jet of fire.

#8
16-11-2011
Irene-I
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,491
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
One hand weapon damage does scale with your skill even without the perks. Also weapon perks get 100% damage increase + enchantments increasing weapon damage by certain percentage+ better something which further increases weapon damage + also better something which can improve weapons at the highest level roughly 100%. all these are percentage increase, resulting in monstrous damage. let’s look at what spells get shall we? +50% from perk

#9
16-11-2011
DougWison
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,453
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
I am not saying that it's as easy as melee or that I think it should be. Casters in any game are squishy, and I don't see why it should be any different this time around. I can't sit here and deny some of the points people have made because some of them are obviously true. I am not level 40+ so I can't say that I am as knowledgeable as some of them are on mana classes, I'm just going to leave it on the note that I disagree. That is all.

#10
16-11-2011
Ashley Parker
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,418
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
This is what they should offer here, as your level progress they should then offer 75 damage, a 100 damage one a 120 etc. Also do it in all classes of each spell, for example the fire flamethrower should have constant upgrades from the basic 8 damage per second, and just continue up to 15, 25, 50 etc. This way people can also use the ones they like the most, some love the flamethrower but if it never increase in damage dealing it becomes nullified and useless after a certain point. That is one thing that would upset me, cause I thought we could use all variants as a viable option if we wanted, just had to buy a more powerful version. Granted, the people saying a Pure mage isn't viable are probably playing a Master difficulty setting, what if you tried to play it on Expert or even Adept? Obviously if it is as you all say it is, that you're too weak as a pure mage, well perhaps that is not the case in those lower settings, hence playing Pure mage on adept or expert is equal to a Melee player playing on Master. Seriously there is no shame in playing a lower difficulty level. It might solve most of the problems? Also, playing as a PURE mage does not mean, destruction spells only, that would be a pure destruction mage only. There are many that say if they level up their conjuration and use flame atronachs etc along with powerful destruction etc that they do just fine. I personally don't understand this notion that "I don't want to use all mage tools", that is pure BS, a warrior can't say I only want to do max level two-hander and use mage robes. It doesn't make any sense, he would be forced to go at LEAST max light armor and preferably heavy armor and get the best versions of it all. He might need some Archery too etc. Playing a PURE mage, means you use ALL mage abilities but no melee or archery. Technically you can be a pure mage in fully leveled heavy armor and just enchant the armor with magic regen etc since then you can take more hits.

#11
19-11-2011
Enos
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,609
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
Anyway, there is one completely valid point about destruction magic, and that is that it does not scale. You get perks to increase damage, and that is about it. With a warrior, you will eventually get daedric weapons, and as a mage you will eventually get your top-tier spells. This happens somewhere around the mid-twenties, I believe. Now, with a warrior, however, you can increase your power beyond mere base daedric sword levels with increased skill levels, perks, forging, enchanting, and potions. With a mage, you can increase damage with perks (very finite) and potions. Once you have hit top-level spells and have the perks, you are at peak permanent damage output levels... around level 25. There is a simple solution to this - scale destruction damage to the player's level by some means. Either give players the ability to enchant +x% destruction damage equipment, or multiply their damage output by their maximum magicka (which would functionally be multiplying by their actual level, as modified by the ratio at which they pump magicka), and you have fairly simply and efficiently solved the problem. Base damage can be scaled so that this doesn't create overpowered characters at any point in the progression. Having the ability to equip some sort of item whose function is to hold an enchantment that gives you + magnitude to your spells would put spellcasting scaling on exactly the same playing field as warriors and their enchantable, upgradable equipment. Hence, it would be more balanced to other character types.

#12
25-11-2011
Nimos
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,411
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
First, there are no real limitations in Skyrim when it comes to skill combination, and it's obvious that certain combination will make your character stronger/tougher. I'm more interested in examining skills specifically, which would in this case be Destruction. I expected Destruction to really have a feeling of raw power to it. I'm not saying that it should do more damage than any other skill, but just that it should capture that feeling when my character uses magic. The animations this time around (at least when compared to Oblivion) are wonderful. I am really pleased with the amount of detail put into them, and that's definitely a plus. On the other hand, the Destruction spells feel very constrained in what they do, and how effective they are. Not only do some of your spells become quickly outdated (which makes me sad, because I love their animations), but the perk tree itself feels like it's set up very awkwardly.
Overall, I still want Magicka to be an actual limiting resource. As it stands, it's either too much or too little of a concern. I don't want the "balance" of Destruction to be around the fact that you can make your high level spells cost almost nothing so that they can be spammed constantly. I want to feel like I have to make choices. So, for instance, I could cast Flames as a controlled and cheap form of damage. I could purchase books to increase its level, thus making it cost more mana, but it would still be a cheaper option than, say, a Fireball. Each spell would have its own niche and feel as if they are viable choices.

#13
26-11-2011
Wyl
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,477
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
People saying Ive played a mage its easy are correct if you only played the first few levels. Before I was level 10 I tested my friend mages are overpowered because I was killing everything with flames in seconds. Now at level 28 I spend 20 times as much running away recharging mana even with the archmages clothes and plenty of +50 magic or 100% mana Regen items equipped because my fireballs take away 5% of an opponents health when I dual wield it. Around level 15 I almost decided just to stop leveling up but that seemed like a real game killer so I bit the bullet.

#14
16-02-2012
Xeolan
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
I play a destruction mage in the lvl 40+ bracket on master difficulty. I think it's pretty good.

Destruction alone is not enough though. Leve conjuration until you can have you thralls. I currently run around with two storm thralls, and i dual-wield either thunderbolt or chain lightning. I can simply stun-lock everything with impact. Even dragons have a hard time breathing on me.

Of course that required me to level up enchanting pretty soon. Maxing it. I have about 420 mana, 500 health. 100% mana reduction for destruction spells. I only ever use mana for conjuring the thralls if they die or to heal myself.

I have an armor rating under 100, but that's because i didn't level alteration, and i wear some kind of crappy light armor. But armor is not that useful anyway. A giant can one-shot me, same for a dragon trying to bite me, but that almost never happen anyway, if i play properly i can keep melee enemies at bay, plus i've got two tanks that can defend me =)

As a fully buffed melee/archer character through smithing, enchanting and relevant weapon skill, i was indeed able to wreck through everything even on master difficulty. As a mage i need a bit more tactics, but it is way more fun.

I love my mage

#15
27-04-2012
Common
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,019
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Destruction is not underpowered
That can be true to some extent. At some part I found almost very difficult to play. The dragon for example. Ancient dragon made in Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim are quiet powerful to deal with. In this game things are made a little more powerful. Like the dragons can simply pickup mammoths or bandits an drop them from air. So this are something which cannot be ignored. They are a bit more powerful as you expands and find more creatures. I had turned up the difficulty and found that they are more tougher to deal with.